Receivers
| Denon AVR-2309CI 7.1 A/V Receiver |
| Written by Gabriel Lowe |
| Wednesday, 03 December 2008 17:00 |
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Page 9 of 9
Conclusions The AVR-2309CI comes in at an MSRP of $849. This puts it squarely in the midrange tier of the receiver market. There are definitely a plethora of features to like on this model that, given the price point, make this a very attractive option. The audio performance is top notch, as I have now come to expect from a Denon product. The list of supported surround codecs is comprehensive, and should provide everything needed to enjoy the latest Blu-Ray discs. The Audyssey implementation is excellent, and the latest features included really are great value adds. The video scaling is limited in its implementation, and will only help someone who is primarily using component video connections for their sources. If you have moved to mostly HDMI as I have, the receiver’s video functionality is basically as an HDMI switcher/repeater. Still, the performance of said scaling when using component connections is quite good, and if you have an outboard video processor, then this is a non-issue. Overall, Denon has a fine product in the AVR-2309CI. If this receiver looks to be in your price range, definitely give it a listen. You just might take one home with you on the spot. Comments (35)
Denon 2309ci Questions
written by Todd Sauve , December 05, 2008 Thanks for the review. It makes me want to trade in my 12 year old Pioneer Elite VSX-05 for this one :) It is interesting to note that in your recent review of the Denon 689 model, you did not like the Audyssey Dynamic Volume implementation but on the 2309ci (Denon 889 actually) you did like it. Why? Is it a updated version of the Volume control or a firmware update? Also, the 2309 amplifiers' performance under a 4 ohm load seems more than adequate, while you did not enjoy it under the 689's power. Is it really that much different?
PS
written by Todd Sauve , December 05, 2008 How about a review of the Denon 789? It falls between the 689 and 2309 in price and features and I'm sure there are MANY other people out there who would enjoy a review of it, especially since you folks do such a thorough wringing out of each model. It is a pleasure to read and learn from :)
PS Qestion
written by Todd Sauve , December 05, 2008 Does the subwoofer preamp output work under every condition, not just under surround modes?
Some responses
written by Gabriel Lowe , December 10, 2008 Hey guys! I am glad you enjoyed the review. I certainly enjoyed doing it. To answer some of the questions: 1) I speculate that the Dynamic Volume/EQ features were the same on both receivers, but the amplifier stage on the 2309 is better, thus, the performance was better. I can't substantiate that since it is a subjective statement, but all I can say was that my experience was better on the 2309 2) I am not sure if we plan on doing a review of the 789, but we can certainly look into it. 3) From my testing, the subwoofer works in all modes except Pure Direct. This is subject to the crossover settings of course.
Video Processors
written by Blaine , December 10, 2008 I've been leaning toward Denon for the past few weeks as I've research'd a plenty (I'm upgrading to 7.1). One test on Video Processors has thrown me for a loop, where the Denon 3808 rated poorly while Onkyo scored favorably. Per the Denon site, the processors used in the 2309 are inferior to the Genesis/Faroudja FLI-2310 chip used in the 2809/3808. What does this say for the 2309 or anything Denon makes sub $2000. In my study, it's apparent that this analyst, Kris Deering, is very good and highly regarded (and a contributor to Secrets at one point in time???). Kris is the first I've seen to actually test chipsets and show how the processor fares in a product. Thus my slack-jaw response to the AVR-3808 test. I posted a similar note on Secret's "recent" Onk 805 review because sound is great but video processing stunk. Seems the SR875/870 fixes that with a higher quality chip (nearly the same one in Denon AVR5308, which is $1k more expensive than the 875). Of course, another forum shows Onkyo is not passing BTB (not a true passthru from source to monitor) which is a flaw Yamaha is getting hammered on. Now, I'm looking into Integra and Marantz because Onkyo just seems to have cut corners. (Secret's 805 review and pics of the fan-layout confirms this). I almost wished I didn't give a damn. Nevertheless, I'm in IT and study everything. It's a bloody curse.
Video Processors response
written by Gabriel Lowe , December 15, 2008 Blaine- I too am in IT, so I know exactly what you mean! I don't know if I would call that chip "inferior". Sometimes newer chips that are of a lower model number outperform their higher end predecessors. In addition, the chip itself isn't always the only factor in performance. It is also the manufacturer's implementation and software that make a difference. Now, I can't speak to that specific chip versus the one found in the AVR-2809/3808, although I CAN say that -having used both the 3808 and the Onkyo TX-SR875, the Onkyo does fare much better. With the AVR-2309CI that I reviewed, I definitely didn't think the video processing was as good as the 875, but I did think that for what it does (analog to digital upscaling) that it did an admirable job.
What about analog video source from VCR machine?
written by Larry Croft , December 19, 2008 Absolutely fantastic easy to understand and comprehensive review! Does the Denon 2309C1 upgrade the video from a standard vhs tape played on a vhs machine with s video outputs?
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written by JEJ , December 19, 2008 The 2309 has a larger power supply and would be more likely to handle 4 ohm loads than the 689. However, neither one is really a receiver designed to crank out loud sound into 4 ohm speakers. If you use 4 ohm speakers with these two receivers, and probably any receiver in this same price range (let's say about $1,000 or less), just be careful with the volume control. Not only would there be considerable distortion at high volume, but the receiver could overheat. If there is no thermal protection circuit in the receiver, it could be damaged. My five-channel outboard power amplifier will drive 4 ohms at full blast, no problem. It weighs 120 pounds. It's all in the power supply. The bigger, the better, and inexpensive receivers have small power supplies, because the power supply is the most expensive component in the receiver. However, some of the small receivers have pretty good performance in the preamplifier section, so a way to keep your cost down is to get the inexpensive receiver, making sure it has pre-outs for all channels so you can use it as the front end, and then getting an outboard (separate) power amplifier, many of which are also very affordable. For example, the Emotiva XPA-5 is a five-channel power amplifier, rated at 200 watts per channel into 8 ohms, fully rated into 4 ohms at 350 watts per channel, and is only $799 ($699 on sale, December, 2008).
VHS Response
written by Gabriel Lowe , December 20, 2008 Larry-- Thanks for the kind words! Yes, the 2309CI will take an S-Video or composite video source and both upscale and upconvert the video to whatever the output format is.
Just got one
written by fred white , December 25, 2008 Thanks for all info here, just got one for christmas
Congrats Fred!
written by Gabriel Lowe , December 26, 2008 I hope you enjoy the unit! That is an excellent present to receive!
Denon AVR 2309 vs Onkyo 806 VS Yamaha RX-V863
written by Chris , December 31, 2008 I have been evaluating receivers and associated pricing for the last few months in anticipation of a much needed upgrade. I keep coming back to the Denon due to the long history of fine audio. I would be interested in any opinions regarding a choice from the 3 "finalists" I have come up with, the Denon AVR2309, Onkyo TX-SR 806, or Yamaha RX-V863. From what I have seen on this site, there seems to be some distaste for the Onkyo and all sorts of priase for the Denon.
Finalists
written by Aaron , January 06, 2009 Thanks for the great review! It's the best review of the 2309CI I've seen. I have the exact same question as Chris. I've narrowed down my next receiver to the same 3 listed above; AVR2309CI, TX-SR 806, or the RX-V863. I need at least 3 HDMI in, I want either decent analog-HDMI video processing or the option to just pass it through (which I hear the TX-SR 806 doesn't do??), and I want support for the new HD formats (DD-TrueHD, DTS-HDMaster, and uncompressed). I keep leaning towards the 2309CI because of the decent video processing, sound quality, and the new Audyssey feature that you had good luck with. I too have the need to keep the volume lower sometimes when I watch movies as others in the house are already sleeping. One thing that worries me is whether or not it has enough power to run the my speakers. My fronts are a set of Gershman Accoustics X-1/X Cube. My current receiver (Integra DTR-7.2) runs them just fine with 105w. Do you think the 2309CI will have any trouble running them? Thanks again!!! -Aaron
2309 and onkyo 806
written by jack , January 11, 2009 ive read both reviews and just want to make one point crystal clear for myself... can the denon passthrough an hdmi video signal WITHOUT modifying it in any way unlike the 806?
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written by Aaron , January 13, 2009 According to page 6 of this review, it will pass through the analog signal without touching it, if you turn off the i/p scaler. I think that is a great option. I'm still leaning towards this receiver, but I'm just worried about it's power. Does anyone know if this thing has enough juice to power a set of 10" and 6 1/2" drivers in the Gershman Accoustics X1/X-Cube set? I need to be sure whatever I choose has enough power to run those enough.
AVR-2309CI vs. AVR-889 vs. Marantz SR5003
written by Bill , January 13, 2009 Thank you for your excellent review of the 2309CI. I currently have a Marantz SR5600 which I am very pleased with but is pre HDMI and does not have the ability to decode the new HD codecs. I would like to update my receiver and it is between the three above. The new Denon's are more featured packed than the Marantz. For approximately the same money, which one would you recommend?
Thank You!
written by Mark , January 27, 2009 This is by far the most comprehensive, detailed and objective review of the 2309 I've found anywhere on the www. I've found it immensely revealing and helpful. I'm getting mine in a month or so. Many thanks for performing and piblishing it. Mark, Dublin, Ireland
outstanding review!
written by erik in chicago , January 28, 2009 thank you for taking the time to review the 2309ci. i purchased this unit today. it is my 1st receiver. given that i am using a ps3 to play games and watch movies on my samsung la46a650i via hdmi i think it will serve my needs with aplomb. i also picked up the denon asd-3n to stream internet radio via my ipod touch. it would have been wonderful for the 2309ci to have ethernet or a usb, but this solution should work for me.
Some Responses
written by Gabriel Lowe , January 29, 2009 Thanks for the comments everyone! To answer a few questions: 1) Of those three receivers, I have only personally used this Denon, though we also have a review of the TX-SR806. I have owned all three brands, and have been happy with them all. I think you should definitely read our review of the 806. Both that review and this one point out the positives and negatives, and your choice will likely come down to which one has a combination of the best feature set and least amount of compromises for your taste. I can't say about the Yamaha, unfortunately, but again, I had an RX-V992 for many years that was quite wonderful. 2) As far as those Gershman Acoustics speakers, I suppose it depends on the size of your room and how loud you like to play your media, but as those are 8ohm speakers, you will probably be fine. I don't really see specs on their site as to what they recommend as far as power goes to drive them. You might want to shoot them an email and ask. 3) As Aaron writes, you CAN turn off any video processing for a given source so the native resolution is passed through. 4) Bill - sorry, I have no experience with the Marantz receiver. They definitely put out quality products, but so does Denon. Perhaps the feature set should help guide your decision. 5) Erik - to your point about ethernet. I find that there are more and more streaming/server type devices that can handle the network stuff outside of the receiver itself, so this will be less and less important as time goes on. Just my opinion.
AVR 1909/2309 same as AVR 889/789 except for CI
written by Jonathan , February 11, 2009 Beyond reproach review! Thank You! Certainly learned a lot and is inspiring to learn more to maximize full use and benefit of AV Receivers. Read the Onkyo 806 review and was scared enough of the underpower/overheat potential problem. I would think the same problem would be with the Onkyo 706 as well. After your posts, I'm nearly sold on the Denon, but I am also considering the Pioneer VSX 01 or VSX 03 with the anti jitter feature for VHS/DVD. MY question is about bi amplification. Both the Onkyo/Denon seem to have this, I'm thinking this is the A, B, AB speaker button function which is not avail on the Pioneer models mentioned. So if I chose the Pioneer, I'm guessing an external power amplifier would be needed. I would greatly appreciate your input, as most BB and CC employees don't even know what I am talking about. I have a Samsung 61a750 DLP with LED, Definitive Technology Mythos 1 Towers, Energy 5.1 (will be upgrading to match DT Mythos line), Sony BDP BX1 (I'm told same as BDP 350) got from Costco. Question here is (of course to be responsible and eliminate as many quest. as poss. I read the review), but the question remains can this player as well as 350 produce 7.1 like the 550 or does it not matter b/c both go thru AV Rcvr? Lastly there is a lot of stuff on the www about cables. I get that there digital and it either works or doesn't, but what about these new Monster 1000 cables that claim the 120 HZ speed over those 60 HZ speed cables. Is there a diff here. I apologize in advance for these quest., but to be honest this site and your input is trustworthy. I belong to AVS forum and can hardly believe the shady/tainted/bias comments. Thank You very much. I would be very grateful for your inputs.
Not the writer but...
written by Andrew Yang , February 11, 2009 Jonathan, The owner of Blue Jeans Cable has written at length regarding digital and cables. I've had some correspondence with Kurt over at BJC regarding the topic more generally as well. First off, the idea that digital either gets there or doesn't isn't quite the axiom that many hold it to be. While there are definitely instances where that is true, there is a lower bound below which there is data loss. Having said that, Monster's done a fantastic job marketing the benefits of their cables, in case the sarcasm is lost in the text, that would be a sarcastic statement. I'll be blogging here in the next couple months on this topic. The signal sent from any consumer video source today 1) not capable of higher than 60 Hz and 2) with the exception of newer camcorders, not capable of sending deep color. So while it has been shown that in the case a much higher bit-rate signal does degrade if the cable is not suitably constructed, the current target remains 1080p/60 Hz/24 bit. The 60 Hz to 120 Hz (or 240 Hz or 480 Hz) conversion happens in the display and not at the source. Not to put words in Gabe's mouth, but I would think he'd be in agreement? Gabe?
Andrew Yang Cables
written by Jonathan , February 12, 2009 Well Thank You! So I understand you correctly, Example: The PS3 was manufactured before 120 Hz motion speed was mainstream. So adding a 120 Hz Monster 1000 HD cable would be akin to the 90's era of putting a 56k modem on a 28.8 telephone line. Yeah the modem is better, but in can only handle the speed of the source line itself so it won't transmit at 56k anyway? Is this the same idea? BTW please keep me posted on your findings with Kurt @ BJC. I'll be checking them out right now. Thanks Again. Jonathan
Wait for the blog but...
written by Andrew Yang , February 13, 2009 The analogy is close enough to get the point across. I wouldn't say I have an ongoing conversation with Kurt regarding the topic, but I will definitely expand upon it in the blog. Look for it in April.
Sound Quality Comparison of 2309 and 1909
written by Blair , February 20, 2009 Nice review! Gabriel, would you say the sound quality of two-channel audio for music on the AVR-2309 is identical or almost identical to the AVR-1909?
Thank You!!
written by Kevin , March 01, 2009 Not being an IT person but appreciating the value of good research and practical opinions, I must say "thanks" for a good review and input. I have spent a number of hours comparing the comparable Yamaha; Pioneer and Onkyo AVR's. This review helped me go with Denon. Will let you know how it goes.
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written by Virginia , March 02, 2009 I too thank you for this review. I only wish you could come here and set ours up. OY! it seems I am spending forever with this manual. It would be nice if they'd made a set-up for dummies manual. I can't for the life of me get the other rooms' speakers to run.
Questions On Connectivity
written by Mark , March 08, 2009 Hi, I'm waiting for my 2309 to come into stock, probably this week. I'll have pretty similar sources to those mentioned in the review: Satellite tuner (Humax Foxsat HDR) Digital terrestrial TV tuner (unknown at this time) DVD player (Denon DVD-1740) XBox 360 Elite PS3 Wii MP3 player (Creative Zen) Laptop The Satellite tuner, DVD-1740, XBox & PS3 will be connected to the AVR-2309 by HDMI alone, though I may also connect the DVD-1740 by stereo phono for analog audio. If the DTT tuner has a HDMI output, I'll connect it to the TV (TH-50PZ80) with that, and to the AVR-2309 by optical or coaxial - whichever the tuner has. If not, I'll connect it to the AVR-2309 by component and optical/coaxial. I'll connect the Wii like you did - to one of the component inputs for video and to a stereo phono input for audio. How did you you assign the inputs so that the audio could be heard along with the video being seen? I'm asking in advance of doing some work on the AV wall, so that I can install & conceal all the correct cables. Thanks, Mark
Sound quality
written by Gabriel Lowe , March 08, 2009 Blair- I can't really comment on the 1909 as I have not heard it. Virginia- Sorry to hear about the setup hassles. I recommend you contact Denon if you are really having trouble. Also, provide them with feedback about the manual. That's the only way a company can truly know what their customers think!
Video Performance
written by J Kramar , April 08, 2009 Currently I watch alot of television via digital cable box with HDMI cable to a new Samsung 55" LED screen. I have not invested in a new receiver yet and am wondering if running an HDMI cable from the cable box through a receiver with decent video upscaling will improve the picture quality of non-HD programs. If so, which receiver would you recommend? I am leaning toward Denon or Marantz for sound quality but am confused about video performance. It seems from reviews that Denon's video upscaling is better than Marantz. Is there a big difference in video performance between the Denon 2309CI and the2809CI? Thanks!!!
Video performance & new question
written by Ross Hoo , April 13, 2009 Kramar....I Just recently purchased the Denon2309ci and think it sound great and does well with the video upconversion, pictures now look better on my 52" Sony Bravia then they did before on a direct to TV hookup. All using Component video lines except Bluray player(HDMI). I am learning lots and do need some help..... My Starchoice Satelite has a DVI hook up with HDMI connection at other end of cable. I know this carries no sound but it WILL NOT work for any video using the Denon receiver...why? I am forced to use the compontent connection.
Just hooked it up today... So far I really like it.
written by Aaron , April 13, 2009 Well, I just unboxed and set this unit up today. So far I really like it. But when you hear people complain about the manual and settings being ridiculously unintuitive and difficult, BELIEVE THEM. I was actually excited to get this unit hooked up so I could fiddle with all the settings and learn how to use it. I had no idea what was in store for me. The settings are really foolishly put together, and the manual is all over the place. Also, the remote is a bit of a pain to use. I couldn't figure out how to use the shift buttons on the front side of it, so I had to keep opening up the back of it instead. Luckily, I have a Harmony One universal remote (just got that too...), so getting the few buttons I needed programmed into that made things much easier. I had a couple issues with the HDMI and my TV, but I figured out what was causing them. Make sure not to turn on HDMI Control unless you know your TV won't have any problems with it. I have a Mitsubishi WD-65734, and after I enabled that option, I had a really tough time getting things working again. But with those few issues aside, I really like this unit. The front is very simple looking with few buttons and dials on it (though sometimes I wish they had a few MORE buttons there, like for specific inputs and DSPs). The sound is great. I upgraded from an Integra DTR-7.2 (older 5.1 system), and the new HD formats sound great. I was afraid that this Denon may not have enough power to run my speakers, but it has had no trouble at all. I haven't really listened to the Audyssey settings too much yet, but I did run the auto setup speaker calibration, so I'll try the Audyssey sometime soon. I don't have anything hooked up to it that isn't already outputting at 1080p via HDMI (PS3, X360, and a PC), so I can't comment on its video scaling and conversion. But from everything I've heard, it's pretty good. I got my unit from 6thave.com, for just over $600. I chose them because they are an authorized e-tailer for Denon. I've heard Denon is strict with their warranties, and may not support your unit for the full 3 years if you didn't buy it from one of their authorized sites. Anyways, great unit so far. Great audio, passes HDMI just fine, and it was about HALF the price of my old Integra DTR-7.2. I'm very satisfied so far.
Setup issues? Check out this page for some easier instructions
written by James , April 15, 2009 To Virginia and others having setup issues - check out http://batpigworld.com/ I'm hoping to pick up a 2309 in the next few days (need to find time to stop by my dealer), so I haven't tried setting this monster up yet, but I found that "Batpig" has done a pretty good job if explaining what Denon has apparently come up a bit short on. Good luck!
Nice Review
written by James , April 22, 2009 I have been a 2-channel stereo guy since 1983. I currently have a Music Hall Integrated amp, Music Hall CD player and Celestion 6si speakers. I find it hard to imagine that any receiver can do both the over processed movie sound tracks and then still be able to render a high quality stereo image. I like the idea of having a pre/pro and a dedicated 3,5 or 7 channel amp to drive any speaker set I may want to use. I know the allure of the receiver is the "all-in-one" packaging. I am an old electronics tech as well. I know from experience that I prefer simplicity. The more complex a componet is the more likely a problem will occur. This is not to say that the Denon will not end up in my system, only that if I have the finances and it has a high WAF, I would prefer separates.
Got one yesterday
written by John Rossi , May 04, 2009 Got one yesterday to replace my existing Denon receiver which is about 10 years. I was really surprised how the receiver took control and recognized all of my devices (Sat TV/Tivo/Blu-Ray DVD/Recordable DVD Player) with no additional setup. Had a little difficulty with the speaker calibration, but tweeked the Center Channel slightly to have the main voice louder. Love the new reciever... Write comment
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