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Q&A # 314 - October 9, 2002

Staff

 

Q I have a question concerning the use of a center speaker. I have no doubt that speaker manufacturers would hate to hear my opinions, but here goes. In my system I have 5 identical Polk RTI35s all around. I have this because I find an identical speaker in the center is the best way to go, it provides for the most seamless soundstage, and it's also what is done in movie theaters, so why not do it at home? I also tried the dedicated Polk center speaker and found that it reduced the overall soundstage of my system. But the point I'm making is that the absolute best sound that I have attained is with NO center speaker. Finally, voices come right from the actors mouths, not from above the TV. The soundstage is wide and clear, and it simply sounds better. Why do you think this is? And why is it not looked at as an option for more people? I should also note that I have a 51" widescreen with the speakers placed fairly close to the sides of the TV.

A The main issue is that of getting a sonic presentation which meshes as best as possible with the visual cues the screen presents us.  While the omission of a physical center speaker can go unnoticed by a person seated perfectly center, for those even slightly off to the side, the illusion gets seriously compromised.  A center speaker above or below a TV may seem like a compromise in and of itself, but it is infinitely worse for the sound to be coming from one side speaker or another, which is the case for people off center when you don't use a center speaker.

Often we have a positive reaction to the omission of a center speaker because the speaker itself is not as dynamic as the main left and right.  Even some of the best brands have to make design considerations when building something that will fit on top of a TV.  In the case of identical LCR speakers, the center may still be at a sonic disadvantage because of the slightly different acoustical reinforcement it gets on top of or below the TV.

Ultimately, it's about taste.  Personally, and just to contrast a little with your take on it, I cannot watch a film without a center speaker, even if I am the only one in the room seated perfectly on center.  Omitting it completely ruins the film for me, as the relation between what I hear and what I see is just "wrong".

T

Q I have a Denon DVD-1000 player that I also use for playing CDs. If I play CDs in a reasonably priced CD Player from Denon (under $500), will I notice a great difference in sound? My question arose from noticing that DVDs produce significantly better quality sound than CDs (example a DVD movie soundtrack and a CD sound track of the same movie).

A In digital audio, the single solitary most influential component on the sound we get is the DAC (digital to analogue converter).  It's impossible to say whether the Denon DVD player has superior/inferior DACs to a dedicated CD player.  Regardless, it's important to note that if your DVD player is connected digitally to your surround sound receiver or SSP (as is the case in 99.9% of home theaters), then it is the DACs in the receiver or SSP you are listening to.  Connect a dedicated CD player digitally as well and there will be absolutely no discernable difference in audio quality because both will be playing through the same DACs.

As for why you find DVD movies sound better than audio CDs, it could very well be because most DVD soundtracks are sourced from 20bit/48kHz masters, while CD audio is 16/44.1.  Even though the Dolby Digital audio of the movie is a lossy compression scheme, there are still 20 bits at the output, and that means more dynamic range (more "punch").

T

Q With so many surround speakers only capable of response down to about 80 Hz, should you use a subwoofer in connection with these smaller type of surround speakers? It seems that more recent DVDs have low bass energy in the surround channels, so if you run your surrounds as "small", the low bass will be redirected to the front subwoofer and not have as good of a directional effect as the DVD intended.

How critical is the placement of the "back" channel subwoofer? Could you place it behind your seating area facing towards the back wall?

Is a full range speaker important for the surround back (6.1, 7.1) channels? Do current DVDs put any low bass energy into those channels, or is it all mid bass and treble effects?

A Keep in mind movie soundtracks are crafted first for presentation in a good movie theater.  These use surround speaker arrays which are not expected to have a deep extension.  More and more soundtracks are "remixed" for home, so we really have no heads up to what the characteristics of the soundtrack are going to be these days.

As long as the crossover frequency of your surround sound receiver or SSP is not too high (no higher than 80 Hz), then there should be no real issue with sending the surround's bass to either the main left/right speakers or the subwoofer if you have one.   You'll still feel the directional effects of the sound space.  Some people complain that even 80 Hz is not low enough, and they can localize the bass at that frequency, but I think that has more to do with a subwoofer having too much higher-order harmonics or the particular crossover not being sharp enough.

The center surround channel of Dolby Digital Surround EX is no different from the other surround channels in terms of spectral content.

If you want to experiment with a subwoofer for the surrounds, go ahead.  It's an added layer of complication though, so be sure to test thoroughly to make sure all sounds are being produced at the correct level. Keep in mind that having a subwoofer in the front and a subwoofer in the rear can cause cancellation since the two subs are pushing against each other (both moving air towards the center of the room).

T

Q Some of your recent Q&A covers various aspects of this subject. I am intrigued by the prospect of richer content music recordings in DVD-Audio and SACD. Your answers typically report that we will just have to wait for the copyright protection to be worked out. Is there any idea or expectation for when this might be resolved?

Further questions:

1) Will existing A/V Receivers be able to receive the 96/24 bitstream, or will we need to upgrade?

2) If software upgrades are anticipated to solves problems like this (and other surround program formats), will it be a good idea to choose any new A/V Receivers with an RS/232C port on back?

3) If I opt in for six-channel sound today by buying both SACD and DVD-A players to get the best value for my budget, and my existing A/V Receiver has only one set of six-channel inputs, can I use "Y" connectors, or short "Y" connector cables to share the inputs between the two players?

4) If 3) is "Yes," then is there an unacceptable loss of signal quality if only one six-channel component is turned on at a time?

Thanks for your extraordinary coverage of the consumer electronics field.

A 1) Since a standard for digital transmission of the new formats has yet to be set in stone, in all likelihood an upgrade will be needed. It could be a complete replacement, retrofit, or just software.

2) With the dynamic nature of the consumer audio industry, software upgradeability is always a good feature in a surround sound processor.

3) It is best to get a multichannel switch.  Connecting two sources to one input is never recommended.

T

Q For starters, your site is very educational and is my most enjoyed website.

I have an HD ready TV that produces progressive images.  The TV also has 3:2 pulldown built into it. Can I feed a non-progressive DVD input into it and get a progressive image? If so, am I losing any quality? Is a progressive DVD player redundant? Am I missing something? If progressive DVD players are an essential element of the process, why are TVs being manufactured with redundant electronic components?

A Most all progressive TVs have at very least a basic deinterlacer for the sake of interlaced material, be it today's cable TV or yesteryear's laserdisc and VHS.  Newer progressive TVs are including 3:2 cadence detection which benefits film based sources on those interlaced signals.  A large portion of television programming is film source, including many sitcoms.

A good progressive DVD player is still a must, especially when you can get great deinterlacing performance for just a few hundred dollars (Panasonic RP-82 or Denon 1600).  Deinterlacing done in the DVD player is performed in the digital domain before an analogue video signal is created (the deinterlacers in TVs tend to be inferior, and the analogue signal from the player must be converted to digital  and then back again, degrading quality).

T

Q  I am finally joining surround sound and want to expand and upgrade my system from conventional stereo, to mid-level surround sound. The components that I will be keeping (and are worth mentioning) are a Sony 35" TV (I will upgrade that in a year or so) and my Phase Technology PC 8.5s.

After doing some reading, it looks as if the best way to go with the new sound formats is two sets of surround speakers: dipoles at the side and monopoles (direct-radiating) at the rear. My problem is that Phase Technology apparently doesn't manufacture dipoles - only bipoles. I haven't done any listening tests to see which is better, but do you think bipoles at the sides and monopoles at the rear is a good combination? How about monopoles for all four surround speakers?

A The debate of monopole vs. dipole for surround speakers is as old as this hobby and continues today.  Some of us at Secrets will accept nothing other than dipoles, while others love their direct speakers.  While the dipole argument has always been that they deliver the same diffuse sound as the arrays of surround speakers found in movie theaters, in reality they are more of a best compromise which achieves that goal. The stereo surrounds of Dolby Digital did not outdate dipoles in any way, anyone who has heard a hard panned cue over a dipole can attest to their ability to still steer sound, despite their diffuse nature.

Direct radiating speaker can do as good a job, and can still impart a diffuse sound but in our experience placement can be an issue.  The IMAX sound system uses a pair of direct radiating clusters for its surrounds, but unlike a regular movie theater, they have ample room to place them well behind the audience.  It follows that direct radiating surrounds are best placed far from the listener but often can be placed far enough away in many rooms.  Conversely, dipole can be quite close to the listeners in a home theater but rely on boundaries to reflect their sound, and thus "don't work" in some rooms.

THX Ultra2, in an effort to implement ONE speaker set for all material, requires dipoles for the surround left/right and a pair of direct radiating speakers for the center surround.  The THX Ultra2 processing then adjusts the output of the center surround pair based on the THX Ultra2 mode you've selected (THX Cinema, THX Ultra2 Music, or THX Ultra2 Cinema).

T

Q Manufacturers warn that they will not honor warrantees for products sold by some on-line retailers. How does this work? Why do the manufacturers wholesale the product to these dealers if they are not authorized to resell the product? If the dealer legally has the product for sale, how can the manufacturer refuse to honor the warranty? It's confusing.

A There is no hard and fast scenario here, and each manufacturer and situation will likely be different.  Many manufacturers sell their product in mass quantities to companies with no warranty, and the buying company then provides their own warranty which may or may not match the original.  Sears is one example of this.  I bought a Sony TV from Sears several years ago and found out that, even though there was a Sony warranty registration card in the box, Sony had no warranty on the product:  Sears themselves warranted the product for two years.

A similar situation may be happening with on-line retailers.  Ultimately, I think most manufacturer are just trying to do as much business as possible while supporting their dealer network by making other routes of sale less attractive and/or less competitive.

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