Not so classy Classe?

[grendal]

I enjoyed the review of the $4900 Classe integrated amp, but it leaves me with cognitive dissonance...

The reviewer writes the quality of this amp is "absolutely superb...", and later mentions that, oh yeah, it came broken- the volume knob was "nonoperative". A nice way of saying "broken."

Well, in my world, $4900 amps which come from the factory already broken are not "superb," they are a gross waste of money. This is, I believe the only actual moving part in the amp. And it was didn't work. The reviewer should have warned potential buyers away from an amp manufactured with such poor quality control.

Now that would be telling a secret.

Richard

[Jared Rachwalski]

The third reservation concerns reliability. The first CAP-2100 I received had a non-functional volume knob. Any electronic component can have a problem, and this failure was likely not the fault of a design issue. Classé says they actually have fewer problems with the optical encoder setup than they did with earlier, mechanical potentiometer designs.

This is why electronic componets have a warranty. Stuff happens. Even with $4900 amplifiers. How are we to know that it wasn't working when it left the plant and was damaged during transit? Or perhaps it was intermitant.

I would be more concerned with the shoddy tech support from Marantz as noted in the Marantz receiver review.

[Admin]

Having a product with a problem out of the box is more common with high end components than mass produced components, because they are usually hand assembled in small quantities. Hand assembly results in more issues. It is just one of the things we have to put up with. In the case of the Classe integrated amp, the volume control changes values in a circuit board, rather than simply adding or subtracting resistance in series. It is a very sophisticated control, and probably something just came loose during shipment.

As to the Marantz Tech Support problem, we are working with Marantz to resolve it. I have asked to get another unit for Ross to test the auto set-up functions.

JJ

[grendal]

Thanks for your replies.

I guess the point I was trying to was that I hope this site would do better. I was drawn to the site by the wonderful DVD-player benchmarks. They are great. And one of the best things is they do not pull punches. A $300 DVD player can be shown to be superior to a $3000 player.

This is a refreshing change from the usual puff pieces and reviews in Audiophile and Absolute Sound where, it seems to me, the $3000 player is ALWAYS found to be superior to the $300 player. The rational is described as superior "transparency," "soundstage," "musicality," and other vague impressions.

Bah Humbug.

If you bought a car and it didn't work; if it came broken, you would not recommend it to a friend. You would be very annoyed and much wiser. Yet reviewers of high ????? audio equipment seem to be willing to forgive all kinds of poor service and shoddy quality.

Why?

Is it snobbism? Is it a fear the manufacturer won't send more review equipment if you publish a critical review? Is it a way to support small manufacturers so we all have more choice in the hifi marketplace?

You tell me.

[Jason Victor Serinus]

This is a refreshing change from the usual puff pieces and reviews in Audiophile and Absolute Sound where, it seems to me, the $3000 player is ALWAYS found to be superior to the $300 player. The rational is described as superior "transparency," "soundstage," "musicality," and other vague impressions.

There is a difference between reporting a list of features and reporting the quality of sound. This is not to minimize the importance of features, especially where DVD is concerned. But a DAC or preamp or receiver or universal player can have all the features in the world and still sound crappy.

Musicality is undefinable and cannot be quantified, but it is a quality that all music lovers recognize. The size of the soundstage, whether or not it is forward or recessed, the amount of air around instruments and voices, and other such descriptions are not vague impressions. They are things one can hear. Nor is transparency vague once you hear the difference between a presentation that is gray around the edges and relatively uniform in color and one that jumps out at you with a vividness that reminds one of live performance.

I realize that if someone mainly watches movies or attends amplified performance, musicality, transparency, soundstage etc... may seem of little importance. But for those whose standard is live acoustic performance, they amount to a great deal.

jason

[colin]

If you bought a car and it didn't work; if it came broken, you would not recommend it to a friend. You would be very annoyed and much wiser. Yet reviewers of high ????? audio equipment seem to be willing to forgive all kinds of poor service and shoddy quality.

Is it snobbism? Is it a fear the manufacturer won't send more review equipment if you publish a critical review? Is it a way to support small manufacturers so we all have more choice in the hifi marketplace?

You tell me.

I don't know about the Classe in particular. It's very possible that shipping caused damage, jolting stuff around that disengaged some solder joints, whatever.

With high-end equipment, we should be able to expect things to work out of the box. If we're paying for hand-crafted build quality, at least they can turn it on and see that it works before they put it in a box. As I said, it's always possible that stuff is broken in shipping (UPS can be brutal, from my experience).

Still, it doesn't seem the norm that high-end equipment is very well designed, at least from a reliability/functionality standpoint. I don't mean like things just don't work out of the box, but that microprocessors lock up, software is plagued with bugs, there's obtuse design of functionality, etc. It's not fair to stigmatize the entire range of products, and DSS receivers and Tivos certainly have their moments when the only recourse is to pull the power plug for half a minute, but it seems at times that the customers are more tolerant of quirks than your typical mass market customer. If somebody picks up a Home Theater in a Box from Costco, and it doesn't work, they'll return it, and maybe even not get the same model because of the negative taste it left. For some reason, the market that the high-end caters to seems to be more inclined to roll with it.

[Chu Gai]

Well, even a Rolls Royce can have problems.

[Troubled]

Having just purchased a Delta-series processor, amp, and dvd player, I'm none-too-pleased to find that TWO of the three components have problems. To say I'm irritated wouldn't do my current mental state justice.

[Jared Rachwalski]

What are your problems?

And what will your dealer do to help?

[Admin]

I remember getting a receiver ($1,000) for review, and found that not only the receiver had a functional defect, but the remote control did as well. They shipped me another box, and everything worked fine. It happens.

JJ

[Chu Gai]

Out of curiousity, are you going to hold on them and get them repaired or are you just going to get your money back?

[Troubled]

I remember getting a receiver ($1,000) for review, and found that not only the receiver had a functional defect, but the remote control did as well. They shipped me another box, and everything worked fine. It happens.

JJ

I'm fully aware that the world isn't perfect, and I don't expect perfection. With two problems in three, however, I doubt that my experience represents a statistical outlier - it instead suggests that the defect probability is substantially higher than one should reasonably expect.

I have a problem with an amp channel and the processor not starting without a hard reset every time.

[Admin]

I found that one really expensive processor crashes unless it is the last thing to be turned on. The increased complexity in modern electronic designs is contributing to this phenomenon. If you look at old tube amplifiers, they had about 10 parts. They are still working fine.

JJ

[Admin]

I'm fully aware that the world isn't perfect, and I don't expect perfection. With two problems in three, however, I doubt that my experience represents a statistical outlier - it instead suggests that the defect probability is substantially higher than one should reasonably expect.

I have a problem with an amp (#) channel and the processor (#) not starting without a hard reset every time.

No, it is just a statistical event. You don't hear from the hundreds of people who bought these same products and never had a problem. Somewhere, someone is going to get the two products each of which has a defect. You were that person. It has happened to me too, mainly because I have so many products coming through the lab.

JJ

[Ovation]

When upgrading my HT receiver in Feb/March 2004, I did a lot of shopping, comparative listening and research and settled on an Arcam AVR200. It had the features I wanted, sounded great, fit my budget, had an excellent reputation for sound and build quality. I bought one, the store ordered it for me and it arrived a week later. I plugged everything in at home, pressed the power button on and blew a fuse in the receiver. Took it back, they ordered me a new one--same result. Got an Integra DTR 6.4 instead (along with an upgraded sub for my troubles--the dealer was great).

Would I buy an Arcam again? Yes, though probably not that model. The store lent me (while I waited for the replacement) an A60 integrated and if I were building a two channel system for a small room, I'd buy one without hesitation. I eventually ran into a relatively high up Arcam rep online and he investigated the problem (the original Arcam distributor rep for the US--I was in Ohio at the time--was not very accomodating. Had he offered me a discount on a third unit, I might still have bought one. However, he suggested to my dealer that I was somehow something of an idiot who was ruining the units, so I was not inclined to do business with the US distributor at that moment). Turns out there was a faulty centre channel amp in each of my defective units. By then I'd already bought my Integra (the new guy from the distributor communicated with my about 9 months after the problem) but I was glad to learn what happened.

All this to say, stuff happens, even to good brands.