Comments for Denon DVD-A1UDCI Universal Blu-ray Player at http://www.hometheaterhifi.com , comment 1 to 27 out of 20 comments http://www.hometheaterhifi.com Fri, 10 Feb 2012 00:48:38 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/universal-players/770-denon-dvd-a1udci-universal-blu-ray-player-.html#comment-2813 Eric, You are almost correct--unless you are being facetious. There have been no AUDIBLE improvements in DACs for more than 20 years. Noise floors have been driven lower, etc., but they still SOUND the same. - Todd Sauve Tue, 16 Feb 2010 16:40:02 +0100 http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/universal-players/770-denon-dvd-a1udci-universal-blu-ray-player-.html#comment-2808 Thats right, no improvements in dacs in the last 20 years - eric ekern Tue, 16 Feb 2010 03:53:02 +0100 http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/universal-players/770-denon-dvd-a1udci-universal-blu-ray-player-.html#comment-2793 Eric, You are labouring under the illusion that DACs can sound different. This is fantasy and has been proven such for 20 years now, much as some in the audio "journalism" field continue to question it. Go here and spend a measly $20 for the proof, provided by the esteemed Audio Engineering Society: http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=5549 Here is how the AES sums up their findings: "Experience from many years of double-blind listening tests of audio equipment is summarized. The results are generally consistent with threshold estimates from psychoacoustic literature, that is, listeners often fail to prove they can hear a difference after non-controlled listening suggested that there was one. However, the fantasy of audible differences continues despite the fact of audibility thresholds." Stop wasting your money thinking you are getting better sound. You aren't. - Todd Sauve Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:15:38 +0100 http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/universal-players/770-denon-dvd-a1udci-universal-blu-ray-player-.html#comment-2779 Eric: Contrary to what you may think, I don't believe anyone that has given their opinion on this forum denies that a product like the Denon BD player shouldn't be reviewed, however, in this day and age, there are those, including myself, who, despite their "reputation", honestly question the price/performance reality of such players. Unfortunately, it would seem you, although from an opposite point of view of those you accuse(and in some remarks, talk down to), have taken a similar tact by automatically assuming that because, in the past you spent a considerable sum of money on equipment, that it is automatically superior, disregarding the questions that have been raised. Incidentally, myself having been involved in the CE field for over twenty years, I owned one of the original "flagship" DVD players, a Toshiba that sold for $1000 along with the "flagship" Sony that was $1300. I pick these because they were the companies who were fighting "tooth and nail" for the system in which Toshiba's eventually prevailed. I was not aware of any players in those initial years, 1997-1998(not 1999) that cost $2500. In recent times much has changed in the consumer electronics field with a number of specialty companies deciding to disregard the normal dealer route, streamline their lines of distribution and offer products with outstanding price/performance capabilities along with a service/support/warranty system that companies like Denon and others couldn't even comprehend. The reality is, whether those in the so-called "high-end" community wish to believe it or not, especially when only a handful of companies currently exist that manufacture the processing chips and DACS that go into most if not all of this equipment, "regardless of price", in today's consumer electronics, the concept of making comparison to a Ferrari, is one whose "ship has sailed". With that in mind, up until recently, I doubt "Secrets" would have even remotely comprehended the idea of writing a review comparing a $499 Oppo to a $4500 Denon. - Ron Wed, 10 Feb 2010 06:11:14 +0100 http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/universal-players/770-denon-dvd-a1udci-universal-blu-ray-player-.html#comment-2771 Willis, These are the final comments I'll have regarding the McIntosh player: - It's not relevant to this article, as it's not being reviewed here, or compared to the product reviewed - It's not available as far as I know, and as you don't have one either, there's no reason to comment on what changes there might be in the player relevant to another one - I want to know where you get the idea that the DAC's, DSP and everything else are the same since the connections on the back look similar? The Marantz UD9004 looks similar, but has very different DAC's and DSP compared to the Denon. - If the video section is the same, that has no bearing on the analog audio section of the player, which is what the majority of people buying these players would be concerned with. They would use HDMI for video, yes, but no one would be using HDMI for audio, as that would be throwing away thousands of dollars in engineering that went into the analog section of one of these players. If you get a hold of the MVP881 and we do a review of it, feel free to comment in that section, but it has no relevance to this review. - ChrisHeinonen Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:01:20 +0100 http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/universal-players/770-denon-dvd-a1udci-universal-blu-ray-player-.html#comment-2769 No one mentioned the AWESOME 32BIT DAC section of the DVDA1. If you have this unit use the analog outputs! This is the ONLY way to take advantage of the 32BIT DAC section of this player. Right now I think there is only 1 SS-receiver using a 32BIT DAC.(Onkyo 5000)Most receivers & processors are still using a 24BIT DAC sections. This is why you should always use the M-CH outputs on this player. There is far less distortion & much smoother sound coming out of these analog connections. Also don't forget to configure the your speakers in the DVDA1 unit because most receiver's & ss-processors M-CH analog inputs by-pass the processor section of the unit. This is one of the KILLER features of this player that make it so advanced among its peers. The Oppo is a great unit that uses a really nice Sabre 24 BIT DAC set-up but w/o this advanced bass management. :( The analog LFE output of the Oppo is FIXED @ 80Hz for all speakers set to "small/crossed-over". This is good for those few using THX speakers or the same speaker in a 5.1/7.1 configuration. Very few people have that set-up. Most people have towers up front with a matching center, small wall-mounted surrounds & a sub-woofer. That means each set of speakers need a different X-over point. This is were the Denon DVDA1 blows the Oppo to smithereens. The Denon allows for X-over points for each group of speakers! For those that understand how to configure the X-over points for you speaker set-ups, you will appreciate this feature. - Jiggy Tue, 09 Feb 2010 15:38:35 +0100 http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/universal-players/770-denon-dvd-a1udci-universal-blu-ray-player-.html#comment-2768 To you who do not understand the concept of a high performance analog section in a blu-ray player i will explain it for: I am not rich but over the years I have built an a/v system that most people would consider far beyond what is necessary to down right insane....I find it just right. I can assure you it is worth more than the Kias and Hyundas (both of them if your married) you have parked in your garage while you watch your oppo on your vizeo and listen through your home theater in a box. The reason I (and there are plenty like me) want the superb audio section of a player are twofold (1) I have a phenomenal pre/pro that is everything I ever wanted but now, because of the new audio codecs, is out dated. The new pre/pro from the same manufacturer with the latest in greatest has much more than just the new audio codec decoding but I dont want to spend 12k to bye it.....4500 on the other hand for audio performance on par with the rest of my system using the multi channel analog inputs in my otherwise perfect pre-amp seems like a very smart alternative. (2) It is encouraging (I have not auditioned one yet and will not make up my mind based on assumptions like some others) from the reviews that the Denon is not only a fantastic Blu-ray player but may also be a phenomenal cd/sacd/dvd-audio player which would allow me to consolidate from 3 digital disc players to one. This would not be possible with out a top notch analog section. On top of that the fully balanced 2 channel section will keep me from going backwards to single ended on my cd player. On another note to the naysayers, unlike trickle down economics, trickle down technology works. With out products like the Denon pushing the envelope new and better technologies will not be developed. If it wasnt for 1500 vhs players in 1977 we would have no home movies, without 2500 dvd players in 1999 we would still be adjusting tracking and while products like the Oppo are great and give very good performance, with out products like the Denon we will still be watching the Oppo a decade from now. Finally, for those who think products like this shouldnt be reviewed.....I dont ever want to see you reading Road and Track about the new ferarri coupe, or PC mag about the latest and greatest processor while your inline at the grocery store. Just my 2 cents - Eric Ekern Tue, 09 Feb 2010 10:45:55 +0100 http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/universal-players/770-denon-dvd-a1udci-universal-blu-ray-player-.html#comment-2763 Willis, We pretty much know now the ins & outs from this industry. No need to get too excited. Some people do their shopping mainly by brand, so what's the point? Cheers, Robert - Robert Tue, 09 Feb 2010 05:45:02 +0100 http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/universal-players/770-denon-dvd-a1udci-universal-blu-ray-player-.html#comment-2755 Are you people now saying that the MVP881 doe not run the same DSP, digital, HDMI, DAC's as the denon? You are mistaken since the information is there and very obvious. The "changes" to the analog and power sections are irrelevant since that will not affect the HDMI performance. http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/images/products/mvp888-back-l.jpg Here is the back and those sctions I mentioned are 100% the same as the denon. - Willis_ Tue, 09 Feb 2010 01:19:08 +0100 http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/universal-players/770-denon-dvd-a1udci-universal-blu-ray-player-.html#comment-2752 It is true that I can not afford a BMW....but it does not mean that I don't like reading about them. Thanks for the review! - Jmilton7043 Mon, 08 Feb 2010 23:02:05 +0100 http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/universal-players/770-denon-dvd-a1udci-universal-blu-ray-player-.html#comment-2749 And other than your conjecture, explain how you know all this? And I’ll accept your answer if you tell me you’ve purchased both and taken them apart. Because I’m quite certain you didn’t get all your information from reading all those other misinformed souls out there ready to bash anything they can.. - Piero Mon, 08 Feb 2010 21:18:14 +0100 http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/universal-players/770-denon-dvd-a1udci-universal-blu-ray-player-.html#comment-2744 Hi Chris, Thank you for the smart response. I agree with you, and I apologise for being so radical in my prior comment. As we advance furher in this passion of ours, the doors of good sense are widening. Money for some have a different value, but the money spent remains the same. And now that we are in the year 2010, and with all the great info (and less great too) we have from the internet, value is taking it's true meaning. I guess that's all I really meant. Cheers Chris & I do appreciate the work you do, Robert - Robert Mon, 08 Feb 2010 13:39:04 +0100 http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/universal-players/770-denon-dvd-a1udci-universal-blu-ray-player-.html#comment-2743 Willis, I didn't mention the MVP881 in my review, or compare the Denon to it at all, nor have I seen or used that player, as I'm guessing you have not either. Also, given that you and everyone else seems to have no idea about the components and engineering of the device, comments about that can probably wait until if/when someone here reviews that device, as then they might know more about it. I've only seen their press release about it and nothing more, and since it doesn't relate to the discussion of this Denon (or the Marantz Blu-ray player) I don't see a reason to discuss it, especially not knowing all the details about it. - ChrisHeinonen Mon, 08 Feb 2010 09:38:31 +0100 http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/universal-players/770-denon-dvd-a1udci-universal-blu-ray-player-.html#comment-2737 The mcintosh uses everything from the denon, same DSP, HDMI, video, DAC's, all mcintosh did was put a different face plate on it and doubled the price. What mcintosh has done to the analog/power sections is unclear but mcintosh and their dealers lied to their customers and said the MVP881 had no connection to the denon. - Willis_ Mon, 08 Feb 2010 06:52:37 +0100 http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/universal-players/770-denon-dvd-a1udci-universal-blu-ray-player-.html#comment-2736 Robert, In the past year I've reviewed multiple Blu-ray players: The Pioneer BDP-51FD and BDP-09FD, Panasonic BD-60, Oppo BDP-83, and this Denon DVD-A1UDCI. Two of those were pretty much entry level, mass market players, one is the most popular universal player, and the other two are reference level players, one universal and one not. That's a variety of different levels of players, just like we have a variety of visitors that are interested in different things. I'm sure not every review will appeal to everyone, but that would be nearly impossible for anyone to do. Some people will read this review for fun, and some people will read it with interest in purchasing the product, and I'm sure some will just choose to skip it as the product doesn't matter to them at all. It would be unfair to people that are interested in products like this, however, to never review them because many people can't afford them, and I think we try to strike a balance of different levels of equipment to review. - ChrisHeinonen Mon, 08 Feb 2010 02:11:49 +0100 http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/universal-players/770-denon-dvd-a1udci-universal-blu-ray-player-.html#comment-2735 "Silly Review Without Comparison with the Oppo SE " When I had the Denon player for review, the Oppo SE wasn't announced, and so wasn't available to me yet and I had no chance to compare the two. I plan to add the Oppo SE so I can use it for future comparisons, but there was no possible way to compare them then, and doing it now if I were to have the SE around would just rely on memory and wouldn't be fair. "For the life of me I can never understand why some reviewers keep referring to the analog outs when comparing Blu-Ray players. A $4500 expenditure for a good analog section? It doesn't make any sense. If one is going to spend this kind of money, one can be assured, in order to take advantage of ALL the player's features AND versatility, the vast majority of buyers are going to make connections strictly through HDMI. " This isn't a player for the vast majority of buyers, and is almost certainly aimed at those that would take advantage of the analog outputs of the player. It you look at my review of the Panasonic BD-60 recently, I used HDMI for the only connection for my testing there as I felt that was the way the majority of people would use it. For the Denon, I made sure to test it both ways, as people certainly are going to buy this for the analog section, and I try to make sure I cater the review to who is going to use the product. "Lexicon anyone?" and "No need the review the mcintosh MVP881 since it is just a rebadged/modded denon." Please don't compare what Lexicon did with their recent Blu-ray player to these Denon, or the similar Marantz, models. The Lexicon deal has been discussed to death, and I don't have any extra insight to add to that matter. However, Denon (and their parent company) engineered a truly high-end product here without cost as a regard. They didn't add a case just to add weight, or put their low end model into a high end case, it's a totally different product from their other players, and have nothing in common with the Lexicon player as far as what you are trying to insinuate. For the McIntosh and Denon being related, I have no idea about that. However, while the video sections of the rear of the units appear to be the same, the audio sections and power supplies appear to be very different. Given that both companies have the same parent company, it wouldn't surprise me if McIntosh used the Denon video section, which was excellent, and added their own analog audio and power sections to the unit so it can perform to the level that they want to to perform, and if that improves upon the Denon, that would be an excellent sounding unit. "No disrespect, but the A1UDCI wasn't intended to be paired with a mid-range receiver that falls some way short of realising the SQ potential of even the 3800BDCI." I wish I had a higher end receiver, or a processor and amplifier section, to use with the Denon, but with the equipment I had and was using at the time (Pioneer SC-27, which was an excellent receiver and I would highly recommend), the Denon was still superior to anything I had heard. With higher end components in the chain, I can see the performance only improving, and my recommendation only getting stronger. Like I said in my earlier post, I realize the Denon is expensive, and more than I and most people can afford, but that doesn't take away from the fact that it's a fantastically built and engineered unit, and one that I imagine many of us can wish we could have in our systems. - ChrisHeinonen Sun, 07 Feb 2010 12:11:11 +0100 http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/universal-players/770-denon-dvd-a1udci-universal-blu-ray-player-.html#comment-2734 For who these reviews are for? For normal people or abnormal? What's the true point? Where are we going? Are we living in a normal planet called Earth? Well, maybe not normal then. Anyway, smart people do get it. Fun to read, no more. I can live without though, as I rather read something I can truly use and benefit from. That's just my opinion, no more. - Robert Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:51:00 +0100 http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/universal-players/770-denon-dvd-a1udci-universal-blu-ray-player-.html#comment-2733 Although HDMI or DL4 is convenient, the best-sounding systems seem to be the ones that use analogue conversion in the player to feed high-end processors and separate amplifiers. No disrespect, but the A1UDCI wasn't intended to be paired with a mid-range receiver that falls some way short of realising the SQ potential of even the 3800BDCI. - welwynnick Sun, 07 Feb 2010 03:23:50 +0100 http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/universal-players/770-denon-dvd-a1udci-universal-blu-ray-player-.html#comment-2729 I'm not going to debate the price of the Denon, since I know it's well out of the reach of many people that will read the review, and that's fine, but you can't say that the Oppo BDP-80 (and I own the 83 and love it) does everything the Denon does. The Denon has a large array of other features that are mentioned in the review, such as gamma correction, speaker level and time correct that is far more detailed than the Oppo, balanced outputs, a jitter-free custom Denon output, dual HDMI outputs, and more. They both play DVD, CD, Blu-ray, DVD-Audio, and SACD discs, and are Profile 2.0, but that doesn't mean they can both do the everything that the other one can. If you would like to dismiss the Denon for a reason other than cost, that's fine, but just because it costs $4,500 doesn't make it insane to purchase it. If I could afford it, I'd have kept the review unit, since it sounded better in my system than anything else I've listened to, including the Oppo players. I don't dismiss a Nissan GT-R as not being a fantastic car because I can't afford it, and don't label people that buy it as insane, and think the same should be allowed for high end audio and video components. - ChrisHeinonen Sat, 06 Feb 2010 11:45:23 +0100 http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/universal-players/770-denon-dvd-a1udci-universal-blu-ray-player-.html#comment-2727 Wow! Great review. You guys did a terrific job. I just wish that I can afford it. Oh well, I guess I'll get myself an Oppo BDP-83 for $499 then. I'll live with it, till I get a better job or win a downfall, so I can buy more expensive stuff, like this Denon. - Robert Fri, 05 Feb 2010 13:38:08 +0100