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Blu-ray Players Pioneer BDP-09FD Elite Blu-ray Player - Benchmark
Blu-ray Players Pioneer BDP-09FD Elite Blu-ray Player - Benchmark
Blu-ray Players
| Pioneer BDP-09FD Elite Blu-ray Player - Benchmark |
| Written by Chris Heinonen and Adrian Wittenberg |
| Monday, 04 May 2009 00:00 |
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Page 8 of 8
Conclusions
The Pioneer BDP-09FD is a player that aims to be reference quality, and performs exactly that way on the bench with solid standard DVD, and Blu-ray playback, and reference quality analog audio performance. The menu system that is included is excellent and movie playback was perfect for both audio and video. I would be quite fine to have it as my only CD transport as well. By adding support for BD Live and DTS-MA, the BDP-09FD is no longer missing any features that I feel I would need to enjoy Blu-ray movies. There are certain features that could be improved upon such as the remote control, load times, a fix for Pure Audio when watching movies, and FLAC streaming from DNLA; however none of these affect the experience once the movie has started. In addition, this player is impeccably built and looks fantastic. It might not be priced for everyone, but there are many people with reference quality audio systems that don’t have HDMI inputs and need the high end analog outputs, or need dual HDMI connections, or just want the best built player out there. The BDP-09FD delivers in spades and should probably be on the very top of your short list. Comments (22)
Does the Marvell Qdeo 88DE2710 process in 16 bit ?
written by dasp , May 04, 2009 "and does all of the processing at 16 bits". As the title does the QDEO process in 16 bit ?
Marvell Qdeo Processing
written by Chris Heinonen , May 04, 2009 From a conversation I had with Pioneer, my understanding was that they used two QDEO's to be able to process 16-bit data, as a single one is limited to 12-bit data I believe, but I did not disassemble the machine to find the chips on the board.
Updated Firmware
written by Chris Heinonen , May 04, 2009 The final 2.46 firmware has now been posted on the Pioneer USA website for those that need to upgrade this player for DTS-MA: http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/ephox/StaticFiles/PUSA/Files/BDP-09FD/BDP_09FD_Ver246.zip Additionally, if you are going to setup the player to use Ethernet for BD Live, that the update feature will now update to this version online automatically when it connects to the Internet.
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written by Dave , May 04, 2009 Wow, this is one top notch player, no wonder the high end can not produce a blu ray player. This player and its hardware makes theta and meridian products look like toys.
Where is the second QDEO 88E2710 in the 09FD
written by dasp , May 05, 2009 "From a conversation I had with Pioneer, my understanding was that they used two QDEO's to be able to process 16-bit data, as a single one is limited to 12-bit data I believe, but I did not disassemble the machine to find the chips on the board." I've seen the inside of the unit and could only find 1 x QDEO 88E2710. There are also Pioneer images of the main board that show/mention 1 x QDEO 2 x Pioneer/Renesas LSI - http://www.pioneerelectronics...._FINAL.pdf Could you guys do some investigative journalism and confirm where the second QDEO is or how the QDEO processes at 16bit input and output. I think Chris mentioned he would try to do this on AVS when the question was raised there. Thanks. Dasp
Best review on high end blu-ray player.
written by Robert G. Raynor, Jr. , May 05, 2009 This is the best review I've read on a high end blu-ray player because it focused on the sound of the analog outputs which is the only reason to pay premium dollar for a blu-ray player. The review seemed unbiased, too. I own the Sony S5000, and this review let me know I made the right choice. But, I think the Oppo would be a better choice for the money. Again, good review.
16-bit video processing
written by Chris Heinonen , May 05, 2009 Dasp, The note that I have from my interview with Pioneer is "Marvell is only 10 bit chipset, so we use 2 to process all 16 bits of it", so I'm checking in with Pioneer to see if we had an error in communication and that should be a Renesas chip that there is two of, and if that is the case, how it handles the 16-bit video processing internally so I can make sure I have this correct. If I get a correction on this, I'll make sure the review is changed to reflect this. Thanks, - Chris Heinonen
Market Share?
written by Ron W , May 06, 2009 I have owned several Pioneer "Elite" players over the years, but considering that even though the "Kuro" was regarded as the "best" of the "best" it is gone. This begs the question, how does a $2000 Blu-Ray player justify its existent in today's market, especially with a company that seems to be retracting its product lines? The "Elite" has always looked "pretty" but when I purchased my Oppo 980 and did a direct A/B comparison with my $1200 "Elite" 59Avi, whatever sound OR video difference there was, I couldn't hear OR see it. It looks like the Oppo BDP-83 "universal" player will be the hit of the season with equal or better performance at a fraction of the price. Of course, it won't look as "pretty" as the "Elite".
16-bit Video Processing
written by Chris Heinonen , May 06, 2009 Dasp, Here's an answer from Pioneer: "Chris (Walker) says that there is only 1 Marvell processor and 1 Renasas chip. However, the Marvell processor has dual inputs which allowed Pioneer to produce a video depth of 16-bits." I hope that clears up any confusion.
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written by RAYMOND J. T. , May 06, 2009 I HAVE SEEN SONY S5000 AND THE MARANTZ BD8002 AND PIONEER BDP-09FD AND THE PIONEER HAD THE BEST PLAYER THE PICTURE IS LIKE NOTHING ELSE I'VE SEEN AND I THINK IT WILL TAKE SOME TIME BEFORE WE PLAYERS THAT CAN DO BETTER I WAS WANTED TO SEE THE MARANTZ BLU-RAY UD9004 BUT FOR $5999.99 I WILL BUY THE PIONEER 09
Re: Marketshare
written by Chris Heinonen , May 06, 2009 Ron, The 09 is aimed at a different market than the Oppo would be. Do you need dual HDMI outputs, either for dual displays or to run audio separate from video (perhaps your receiver introduces errors in the video path, as some do)? Do you only have analog inputs and need full speaker controls, including distance, level, and crossover? I'm sure Pioneer and other companies wish that the financial world was doing better now, as everyone does, but I don't think that has eliminated the market for players like the BDP-09, it's just a more specific market than for a player like the Oppo. Thanks, - Chris Heinonen
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written by dasp , May 07, 2009 "Dasp, Here's an answer from Pioneer: "Chris (Walker) says that there is only 1 Marvell processor and 1 Renasas chip. However, the Marvell processor has dual inputs which allowed Pioneer to produce a video depth of 16-bits." I hope that clears up any confusion." Not really it actually creates more confusion because the 88DE2710 only has a single primary 10 or 12 bit HD output. Can you ask Chris how this outputs 16bit ? "Outputs The DE2710 supports the simultaneous output of two video streams, referred to as the Primary and the Auxiliary. This unique feature is called TwinDTM. The Primary stream can have any desired frame-rate, up to and including 1080p24, and 1080p60 with a maximum resolution of 1920x1080. The output can be 10-bits per channel for RGB or YCbCr 4:4:4 or 12-bits per channel for YCbCr 4:2:2, which supports the “deep colour” requirement of HDMI v1.3. The Auxiliary stream can be chosen to be 480i50 or 576i60 and the field rate is independent of the primary output." http://www.clearlyqdeo.com/pdf/Paper_Adaptive-Digital-Video.pdf Thanks Dasp
marketshare
written by Ron W , May 07, 2009 Chris: You are absolutely right, the 09 is aimed at a specific market with a specific feature set requirement. However, I wish to add that as someone who has spent a considerable number of years putting systems together in ALL price ranges and complexity, one thing I have learned is, in the end and in this particular case, it boils down to performance in terms of what I see on the screen and what I hear and how it compares to other equipment, REGARDLESS of price. The internet companies like Oppo have blown that price/performance ratio out of the water. For the record, it should be interesting to note that a recent reviewer compared the Oppo BDP83's analog section to a Lexicon RT-20(although older), a player probably six to seven times the price of the Oppo and least twice as much as the Pioneer. It has become quite clear that audio/videophiles NOW, don't have to spend ridiculous sums of money to get top performance.
Deep Color
written by Dean , July 02, 2009 "Unfortunately, one feature that I was unable to test was the bit-depth conversion that the Pioneer can perform internally. Color data on DVD and BluRay discs is stored in an 8 bit format, so when you scale the picture to a different resolution, or perform any extra processing on the image (noise reduction, gamma correction), you can easily introduce errors that can be seen as unsmooth gradients of color, or blotchy areas of an image, since you’re only using those 8 bits per color. The Pioneer converts everything to 16 bits internally, and does all of the processing at 16 bits, only going back to 8 bits at the very end of the output stage. This allows for smoother gradients, and could allow for a better looking upconversion for DVD sources. Unfortunately, to output this extra detail you would need an HDMI 1.3 compatible display (so it can display Deep Color) and my display does not support that unfortunately. However, since I didn’t see any of these issues when I was testing the player, those with HDMI 1.3 displays might see some extra detail that I could not." If you only have 8 bits of data to start with how can you convert to 16 bits ? Something has to be made up. If it converts back to 8 bits for the output you do not need HDMI 1.3. HDMI 1.3 is only needed if the output actually has more than 8 bits. The Pioneer is not actually giving the display more colors to produce as a true Deep Color output would. What it is doing is more accurate calculations. You would also need more than an HDMI 1.3 connector on the display for Deep Color. The display would also have to be capable of displaying the extra colors which takes technology currently available on only a handful of displays.
Re: Deep Color
written by Chris Heinonen , July 02, 2009 Dean, What I meant in "converting to 16-bit" is that the 8-bit data is being stored and processed with 16-bits of precision to do more accurate calculations internally before it outputs this back to the display. Of course, the display needs to support the extra gamut of xvYCC, and I can't tell you how many displays support the full gamut, and which support at least part of it. For me to tell the benefit of the extra precision in the calculations, I would need a display that supports xvYCC and has an HDMI 1.3 input, which mine does not. Sorry if there was some confusion caused by that.
Re: Deep Color
written by Dean , July 03, 2009 Chris, You still don't understand. If the unit is really outputting 8 bits of color per color as you said then it is not outputting a larger color space than the normal Blue Ray color space so you don't need HDMI 1.3 or a large color space TV
HDMI 1.3
written by Dean , July 03, 2009 As stated here: http://www.hdmi.org/learningcenter/faq.aspx#112 "Deep Color: HDMI 1.3 supports 10-bit, 12-bit and 16-bit (RGB or YCbCr) color depths, up from the 8-bit depths in previous versions of the HDMI specification, for stunning rendering of over one billion colors in unprecedented detail." So with only 8 bits of color you DO NOT need HDMI 1.3 or 1.4
Deep Color
written by Chris Heinonen , July 03, 2009 Dean, If you have an HDMI 1.3 compliant display, the Pioneer will sent a 16-bit video signal and it will skip the conversion back down to 8-bit at the end. As I don't have a display that will accept more than 8-bits of data, I couldn't test to see if the 16-bit color output helped with areas of the upconversion (such as gradients).
The DSP inside the 09FD
written by Chris Cheng , July 10, 2009 We know the 8 pcs DAC inside the 09FD, but Pioneer didn't mention what DSP is used in the 09FD for decoding the DD true HD and DTSMA.Is it a 32 bit Shark ?
Built-in storage capacity typo...
written by Henrik Sandin , August 31, 2009 Chris, you write "...the BDP-09FD features 4 GB of memory on the board in the form of an SD HC card for downloaded content. As most movies typically only require around 4 MB of space, you should be able to hold the downloadable content for close to 1,000 discs before you run out of room..." I think you mean that a movie typically requires 4GB of space, so you would be able to download ONE movie, not 1000 movies... That is, unless the built-in memory is 4TB. Please correct!
Storage Capacity
written by Chris Heinonen , September 01, 2009 Henrik, The 4 GB of internal storage is used for extra content to be downloaded online, or other BD Live data that a Blu-ray title needs to save, not to save the title itself. Pioneer and other manufacturers estimate this at around 4 MB of space per title, so that 4 GB SD HC card should be able to save around 1,000 titles worth of data. - Chris Heinonen Write comment
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